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Episode #180: "Balancing Clean Energy Expansion with Wildlife Protection" with Veronica Ung-Kono, Staff Attorney and Clean Energy Transmission Policy Specialist at the National Wildlife Federation [an Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast]

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As the demand for renewable energy grows, the expansion of transmission infrastructure has become a critical need for facilitating the clean energy transition. However, this expansion often runs up against the need to protect vital wildlife habitats and natural ecosystems. Striking a balance between advancing clean energy and preserving biodiversity is an increasingly complex challenge that utilities, policymakers, and environmental advocates must navigate. In this episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast, we welcome Veronica Ung-Kono, Staff Attorney and Clean Energy Transmission Policy Specialist at the National Wildlife Federation, to discuss how these two worlds intersect.

Listen in as Veronica shares with podcast host Jason Price and producer Matt Chester her unique perspective on how to expand the nation’s transmission infrastructure while protecting wildlife. From understanding migration patterns to safeguarding lesser-known ecosystems, Veronica explores how her team is working to ensure that clean energy development doesn’t come at the expense of the environment. Listen in as this conversation covers these critical issues and learn how early collaboration between developers and environmental advocates can lead to more sustainable outcomes.

 

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Thanks to the sponsor of this episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast: West Monroe

 

Key Links:

NWF's Transmission Webpage 

2022 MIT Study

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TRANSCRIPT

Jason Price:

Transmission lines, renewable energy, and wildlife protection. How do they all intersect?

In today's rapidly evolving energy landscape, the push for a clean energy transition is impossible without changes and likely expansions to our transmission infrastructure. But the available space in which to expand is increasingly encroaching on the country's natural environment.

So in our effort to expand availability of green energy, how do ensure we don't do so in a way that proves harmful to critical habitats and the essential wildlife they support? We'll dive into the nuances, challenges, and ultimate opportunities for the utility leaders when it comes to this wildlife and transmission intersection today on the latest episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast.

I'm Jason Price, Energy Central Podcast host and director, with West Monroe coming to you from New York City, and with me as always, from Orlando, Florida, is Energy Central producer and community manager, Matt Chester.

Matt, no doubt the need for new transmission is a hot topic on Energy Central. Are you seeing the community include in those discussions a focus on the wildlife impact and how to minimize those impacts?

 

Matt Chester:

Sure, Jason. The need for new transmission, it's definitely one of the hottest trending topics in the energy central community these days, but I'll admit that most of the discussion tends to focus on the challenges around things like permitting, the economics of the projects, the complexities of securing rights of way, and it does seem that the impact on wildlife, maybe it falls further down on the list of visible priorities, at least, in these conversations.

So, hopefully, today's discussion will help elevate that to our listeners, what the importance is in considering wildlife protection and transmission planning, and bring that more to the forefront of wider energy central community discussions.

 

Jason Price:

Absolutely, thanks. And thank you to West Monroe, our sponsor of today's show.

To dive more into this topic, we're excited to welcome Veronica Ung-Kono from the National Wildlife Federation, where she serves as staff attorney and clean energy transmission policy specialist. Veronica brings a fascinating perspective on how to balance the urgent need for transmission with the equally important need to protect wildlife from large-scale migration patterns to the less visible but equally critical benthic ecosystems. Veronica's work is all about finding harmony between progress and preservation.

So with that, sitting in the Green Mountain state of Vermont, let's meet Mother Earth's general counsel, Veronica Ung-Kono. Welcome to Energy Central's Power Perspectives podcast.

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Thank you, Jason. Glad to be here.

 

Jason Price:

Veronica, we're thrilled to have you, and we're used to talking to utility executives on this show, so it's really a nice pace, change of pace if I will, to be speaking to someone in your position, both your background coming from a legal perspective and your role in the world of environmental considerations. But before we get into that topic at hand, please give us and our listeners a bit of a background about how and why you ended up where you are today.

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Of course. When I first went to law school, Jason, I knew I had to find a specialty as one does, and I chose environmental law because it is intersectional. It touches on immigration, energy, reproductive rights, all of these really important and big issues. But when I got to law school, I was sorely disappointed when I realized that this place, by its very structure, does not embrace intersectionalities. I'm a first-generation attorney, so I had no one to prepare me for what that environment would be like.

And as someone who also has a lot of intersecting identities, that profoundly affected me, and it made me question whether I belonged because I could hold all of these different intersectionalities, and I wanted to study the intersectionalities in the practice of law. Then I met the professors at Vermont Law School's Institute for Energy and the Environment, and I was drawn to the IEE because of the passion the professors had, but also because the professors embraced intersectionality in their approach to their teaching, in their curriculum, in their skillsets that they were building in their students.

And I often joke that I was taught energy law and policy by economists and engineers just as much as actual attorneys. And so that is really when I realized for the first time that there is a way to not lose yourself and still practice law and policy. And so I carried that through my time at the Vermont Public Utility Commission and now at National Wildlife Federation, where I've applied and refined this approach to practicing law and policy. And for my work at National Wildlife Federation, commonly known as NWF, I recognize that wildlife, people, and the electrons in the grid we're all such similar ecosystems that are all interconnected, and that interconnectedness means that we have similar problems, but also it means that we can use similar solutions.

And the trick is balancing the needs where all of these areas intersect. So at National Wildlife Federation, we support and champion responsibly developed transmission by focusing our advocacy on the processes that produce well-informed, science-backed decision-making that balances the priorities and recognizes the interconnectedness of the grid, people, and wildlife.

 

Jason Price:

That's a great setup. We're going to dig far deeper into those topics. So hold onto that. Those thoughts. I want to ask you, and I want you to take our listeners into a little bit more of the background of NWF. Give us a quick rundown of the history of the National Wildlife Foundation, whether its goals both in an overarching manner and when it comes to the energy side of the conversation.

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

So let's take a step back to 1936, when America was in the midst of the Great Depression, the Federal Power Act was almost 20 years old, so still relatively new, and we had over 40 years until we would get the National Environmental Policy Act, the Clean Water Act, the Endangered Species Act. So at that time, there was no nationwide constituency to support conservation. So, J.N. "Ding" Darling, as he was known, was an avid waterfowl enthusiast who saw the impacts of the Dust Bowl firsthand. And President Roosevelt had actually appointed him to head of what would now be U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. And so Ding actually convinced President Franklin Roosevelt to convene more than 2,000 conservationists. This included farmers, hunters, anglers, garden club members, and any other outdoor enthusiasts from across the country to form the very first North American Wildlife Conference in Washington, DC. And from there, the National Wildlife Federation was formed.

Fast-forward to 2024, 88 years later, the National Wildlife Federation still operates as a true federation. We have 52 affiliates, one in every state plus two territories. And these independent organizations come together and vote on resolutions that decide what we, as National, pursue in our advocacy.

In 2024, our work still centers wildlife, but we also have moved to more explicitly center equity and justice and climate advocacy. What I think helps keep our work really grounded is our fieldwork. We aren't just a policy organization. We practice what we advocate for, from habitat restoration to our education programs, to our eco schools initiative, to our expanded policy areas like climate, clean energy, and decarbonization.

 

Jason Price:

That's all very interesting. So, Veronica, we brought you in to talk about transmission, and you're in an interesting spot in the transmission debate, right? And you cover both land and offshore, and where perhaps the green advocates are clamoring for more transmission, you are making sure that it's done in the most environmentally respectful way.

So can you share with us the key challenges you see in balancing the need for expanded transmission infrastructure with the need to protect wildlife and critical habitats?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

It's interesting, Jason. The key challenges for wildlife and natural resources are really just opportunities for us to think more holistically about grid planning. One of the key challenges with linear structures like transmission is habitat fragmentation, which can create barriers for species to move and migrate. And this is an essential ecological process, right, for health and species health and genetic diversity. And keep in mind, climate change can augment these direct challenges when you assess the cumulative impacts for a region. And our regulation in this country focuses so heavily on those direct impacts or short-term indirect impacts on a project-by-project basis, which is similar to the issue of how we address grid planning. That's why advocates fought so hard for improved regional and interregional planning for FERC Order 1920 with long-term regional transmission planning that identifies needs at least 20 years out. So this boils down to choosing collective action.

So often climate action is discussed on an individual level, but it is possible to address systemic and larger issues collectively, especially where industry and advocates can find common ground. Another challenge is moving from a net neutral approach to a net positive approach. So often, when we think of the intersection of wildlife and the environment, we try to do the bare minimum to protect and conserve wildlife and the environment. But if industry and decision makers work closely with scientists and communities to find ways to benefit wildlife and the people who bear the burden of this infrastructure for mutual benefit, this net positive approach can address multiple challenges. Back in the 2000s, National Wildlife Federation actually had a program called Operation Sage-Grouse based in Montana, where high school students would tag fences that the greater sage-grouse would normally collide with. And this program provided youth conservation education, and it was a helpful mitigation approach that prevented preventable takes with a simple white clip being added to a fence.

Jason, this is really the moment where industry can make a choice to be innovative. Climate change is here. We are living the results of historically poor land use decisions and severe weather exacerbated by climate change. This is the opportunity for industry to get creative with state wildlife agencies, with conservationists to plan for the long term in a way that can benefit people and wildlife.

 

Jason Price:

That's all very interesting. And there's something else that I found interesting when we first met to discuss this podcast. You made this connection between wildlife migration and the principles of electricity.

Can you share that connection with our listeners and expand on how this insight guides your way of working in transmission policy?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Yes. So migrating wildlife and electrons have similarities that are notable given National Wildlife Federation's position in this work. For so long, transmission advocates have been pushing for modernized regional and interregional scopes of transmission planning. At the same time, conservationists for years have advocated for regional and interregional examination of habitat connectivity, particularly for migrating species. And both electrons and migrating wildlife are driven by natural forces. For electrons, it's electric and magnetic fields. And for migrating wildlife, it's their ecological cues, right? Like changes in food availability, weather and patterns, seasonal changes, and both electrons and wildlife interact with their environments.

Electrons can move between different energy levels and effectively interact with various states of matter versus migrating wildlife interact with their ecosystems, their landscapes, their geological features and often adapt their paths based on different environmental conditions. And speaking of adaptability, both electrons and migrating wildlife are actually quite adaptable. Both can adapt their behavior over time based on changing conditions.

So electrons can tunnel through barriers or change energy levels when conditions change, while migrating wildlife can adjust their routes and behaviors in response to environmental shifts or obstacles. So now we are at the moment where we need to recognize where wildlife and electrons meet and create durable solutions that can embrace these similarities.

 

Jason Price:

That's great. That's really great. I can imagine some of the papers you produced in law school that drew those parallels together. That's great background.

If I understand correctly, you are very much aligned to the fact that we need to expand transmission. So you are pro-development of clean energy infrastructure if conducted in a prudent and respectful manner. This does counter the stereotype of being painted as a constant obstacle to development. I want to give you a chance here to highlight why exactly collaborating with NWF upfront in the planning process is good business practice and how it could impact the outcome of a project.

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Definitely. So National Wildlife Federation advocates for, as you pointed out, responsibly developed transmission. And that means that's transmission development that is informed by comprehensive interregional and regional planning, strong and transparent collaboration and coordination among decision makers, and really centers the priorities of environmental justice communities and tribal nations and indigenous peoples and wildlife using the best available science. And a 2022 MIT study that I'll cite to called Sources of Opposition to Renewable Energy Projects in the US found that early engagement with potential local opponents can avoid extended delays or project cancellations. Hunters, anglers, conservationists, they're seeing the effects of severe weather that's then being exacerbated by climate change firsthand.

They see how climate change is affecting wildlife's behaviors and critical habitats, and they also recognize that we need this infrastructure, but they also understand how important it is to develop it responsibly. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction Act set us up with the funding to help make these projects happen. Now is the moment to make those dollars go even further by having industry work with conservationists, scientists, communities, indigenous peoples, and tribal nations to create these modernized solutions.

 

Jason Price:

Okay. Well, when it comes to the role that NWF plays in the present-day discussions on transmission infrastructure, what tools are you able to bring that are perhaps unique from other conservation organizations, and how do you include a focus on being additive to these debates rather than more of an obstruction?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Yeah, so a lot of the regulatory issues that we face come from outdated regulatory frameworks, and National Wildlife Federation works to modernize these frameworks so that they can serve Americans and wildlife in 2024. So often people talk about speeding up processes, but decision-making doesn't get better by being faster; it gets better by being more well-informed. And we've seen that with the creation of the Department of Energy's coordinated interagency transmission authorizations program. Such a mouthful, but commonly known as CITAP. We've seen that with FERC Order 1922 and also with the updated FERC backstop siting rule.

 

Jason Price:

Veronica, we mentioned that you also protect the benthic habitat. This is the less celebrated types of wildlife at the bottom of the ocean floor or out of sight, out of popular media. Can you elaborate on how and why your work focuses on the benthic habitat?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Yes. Our work, particularly in the offshore transmission space, is increasingly raising awareness of the benthic habitats. So the biodiverse and varied seabed environments, otherwise known as benthic habitats really serve as the foundation for healthy ocean ecosystems and fisheries, and benthic habitats, often literally shoulder the ecological burden of offshore transmission cable installation, right, to ensure that that energy is generated by the turbines, then reaches the onshore power grid.

And benthic habitats are frequently overlooked by decision makers due to the United States' heavy focus on endangered megafauna species like the North Atlantic right whale, which is still critically important, but such species could not survive without the fish invertebrates and other marine life that depend on a healthy benthos to reproduce, grow, and ultimately thrive.

Much of that science, though, is still underway. So just like with other areas of our work, we are working on the best available monitoring and adaptive management practices for industry and decision makers to adopt, knowing that we will have to live with this infrastructure for at least 50 years, right? And that climate change is changing so much of our natural ecosystems every single day.

 

Jason Price:

Yeah, for sure. You mentioned the unique history and relationships NWF has in the federal policy space that has allowed the organization to gather more inclusive, bipartisan support from people with different perspectives and come up with creative solutions. Tell us more about how you're able to accomplish this, and maybe give us a few examples of how that's led to results in practice in the past.

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Yes. So National Wildlife Federation works on clean energy because climate change is an existential threat to wildlife and people alike. We don't have to choose between clean energy, wildlife, and people. Healthy ecosystems mean healthy people. Our solutions are mutually beneficial. Yes, we must make changes to adapt to our rapidly changing world, but these changes are overwhelmingly positive, and we can help create a more sustainable, resilient future. We want regulations and processes that will provide industry with certainty because we know that that can create more informed decision-making on their part. And one of the greatest challenges right now is making the most of our existing system to create well-informed new buildout. There's a lot of hope right now in FERC Order 1920, the FERC requires grid operators to consider the use of grid-enhancing technologies commonly known as GETs, which includes dynamic line ratings.

And now the FERC proposed a notice of proposed rulemaking for dynamic line ratings, which is such an exciting opportunity for the FERC and grid operators to increase transparency, make reliability improvements, and prevent overloads. And there's an economic imperative, right, for just and reasonable rates to reduce congestion by then increasing capacity and unlock the lowest-cost resources. So National Wildlife Federation is generally aligned with industry and trade associations in supporting this regulatory effort because we know that making the most of our existing grid can benefit people and wildlife alike. Another opportunity I would say for further collaboration is passing Recovering America's Wildlife Act.

One third of all U.S. wildlife species currently face an elevated risk of extinction, and Recovering America's Wildlife Act will allow states, territories, and tribes to invest 1.4 billion annually in proactive on-the-ground collaborative efforts to help at-risk species by restoring habitat, controlling invasive species, reconnecting migration routes, and addressing emerging diseases. And industry can support efforts like Recovering because its implementation means that they can then create more well-informed solutions that we need to address the climate crisis.

 

Jason Price:

Given the spotlight on transmission both on and off offshore in this country, this conversation that we're having with you, Veronica, is long overdue and really important and timely as well. So I really want to thank you for taking time out of your day to talk to us on power perspectives.

We're going to give you the final word, but before we let you go and give us that final word, we do want to switch now to what we call the lightning round, which gives us an opportunity to learn a little bit more about you, the person rather than you, the professional. We're going to throw a bunch of questions at you, about five or six. We ask you to keep your response to one word or phrase.

So Veronica, are you ready?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

I'm ready. Let's do it, Jason.

 

Jason Price:

Okay. What's your favorite under-recognized species you've gotten to know as part of your work with NWF?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

The American pika, not to be confused with their Canadian counterparts, which I think went viral at one point because they sometimes eat bird brains. American pika, to be clear, are herbivores.

 

Jason Price:

I'm still not sure what that is. I guess I'll have to look it up after. I'll have to go on Google and look for this. It's a type of plant?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

No. So the American pika, he almost looks like a little mouse, and they are... Yeah, you might've seen them. They went pretty viral online recently. But they're suffering because climate change has brought higher temperatures to their western mountain homes. Unlike other mountain species that can move to higher altitudes in warming climates, pikas live so high in the mountain that there's literally nowhere else for them to go. So they're trapped at the top. And then Alpine wildlife are more vulnerable to climate change's damaging effects, including vegetation changes, just because of where they're situated.

And unfortunately, the American pika is not federally listed under the Endangered Species Act. Quite frankly, without protection and help, we are worried that the American pikas might be the first species to go extinct because of climate change.

 

Jason Price:

Interesting. Well, I'm glad I followed up with a question there. What does someone need to include in their itinerary if they're headed to Vermont for an autumn trip?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

That's a great question. Farmer's markets are a great way to support local businesses and farms, especially given the tremendous flooding that the state experienced earlier this year and that many communities are still recovering from. But I will also note that just this weekend, a rare Canadian lynx was spotted in Vermont. It was walking along a road. So if you are planning to come to Vermont and do some leaf peeping and visit some farmer's markets, do please be mindful when you're driving through the state.

 

Jason Price:

Yes, and I've been to some of those Vermont markets and farmer's markets and would definitely agree. Definitely something to visit. What's the most rewarding part of your job?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

You know, Jason, getting to learn from a variety of experts, ecologists, biologists, grid planners, other attorneys, all from different backgrounds. There's something quite extraordinary with where my position sits that allows me to enter the just and clean energy transition discourse and constantly be exposed to all of these different individuals every single day. And I just don't know of another position out there, quite frankly, that allows any one person to be able to do that. So I feel very rewarded and grateful for where we sit and for all of the great folks that we get to work with.

 

Jason Price:

We're collecting lightning round questions from past podcast guests to ask feature guests. I think an apt one for you would be the one from Prasanna Venkatesan of Landis+Gyr who challenged the future guests to answer. And here's the question. In addition to sustainability and energy, what are you doing in the area of water conservation?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Oh, great question. So at National Wildlife Federation, we advocate for large-scale restoration in places like the Chesapeake Bay, the Everglades, Mississippi River Delta. And because all water is local, the solutions we are championing in each of these places varies but our approach in general is similar. And we look to build broad coalitions who can work together to identify the best, most cost-effective solutions. And then we lead the charge to get those solutions implemented on the ground. And actually, as your listeners might know, last year the Supreme Court heard a case that decided what waters are covered by the Clean Water Act. This is known as the Sackett decision. And their decision removed federal protections for over half of America's vital wetlands. And this is important because the Clean Water Act is the reason that we can trust the water that comes out of our taps.

It's the reason rivers and lakes don't catch on fire the way they used to way, way before the Clean Water Act. This decision doesn't just impact wetland habitats but also risk the drinking water supply of over 100 million Americans because of the way that waterways store and protect, and filter water for both people and wildlife. So at National Wildlife Federation, we're calling on Congress and states to plug in and fill this huge gap left by that Sackett decision and protect our drinking water. And this is, again, another opportunity where, if industry wants certainty and well-informed regulator decisions, we could collaborate.

 

Jason Price:

Right. Veronica, now it's your turn. What lightning-round question do you want to challenge a future guest to answer? And it can be topical and related to energy, or it can be an off the wall.

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

I challenge the next guest to answer the question, what is one accomplishment that you have achieved that you would be excited to share with your younger self?

 

Jason Price:

And our last question, Veronica, is, who are your role models?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

Jason, I have a few role models. I'm also extremely privileged that I've been able to work with them and that they've also been my mentors. So one of my role models is Joan White, the director of storage and interconnection policy for the Solar Industries Association. I knew her back when she was a hearing officer at the Vermont Public Utility Commission. And from Joan, I really learned the value and importance of advocating for yourself and for your work.

Another mentor is Fred Brown of the Forbes Funds, who taught me the importance of discernment in difficult situations. And my final role model is someone very special to me who unfortunately recently passed. It's Kevin Jones, who most people know him from his time as the director of power market policy for Long Island Power Authority or when he was the director of energy policy for the City of New York.

I knew Kevin when he was the director of the Institute for Energy and the Environment at Vermont Law School. And he's actually the reason I didn't drop out of law school. And he taught me that to be a great advocate, you have to be a just collaborator. How you treat people matters more than how smart you are. You can always learn more. And that's a lesson that I've passed on to my mentees, and I know the IEE continues to foster in its students. And that's the ethic that I apply to the National Wildlife Federation's Transmission Advocacy.

 

Jason Price:

That was fantastic. Thank you for sharing that, Veronica. And I'm sure our listeners will have some comments, and questions, and follow-ups. We invite them to leave those in the comment section of the Energy Central post for this episode. And when they do so, we'll invite you in to hop into the conversation and keep that going.

So until then, though, we just want to thank you for sharing your insights on today's episode. So, Veronica, we want to give you the final word as we said. So knowing that we have an audience of industry leaders and executives listening to this podcast, what were some closing thoughts you'd like to share with them?

 

Veronica Ung-Kono:

This is the moment for collaboration and accountability. We don't have to choose between clean energy, wildlife, and people. It's important that decision-makers and advocates balance that real threat of climate change with the potential impacts of transmission development. And thank you for your time, Jason. This has been a lovely conversation.

 

Jason Price:

Beautiful. We really appreciate it. We feel likewise. I'm very lucky to have you on the podcast. And as I mentioned, you can always reach Veronica through the Energy Central platform, where she welcomes your questions and comments.

And of course, we also want to give a special shout-out thanks to our podcast sponsors that made today's episode possible. Thanks to West Monroe. West Monroe is a leading partner for the nation's largest electric gas and water utilities working together to drive grid modernization, clean energy, and workforce transformation. West Monroe's comprehensive services are designed to support utilities in advancing their digital transformation, building resilient operations, securing federal funding, and providing regulatory advisory support.

With a multidisciplinary team of experts, West Monroe offers a holistic approach that addresses the challenges of the grid today and provides innovative solutions for a sustainable future.

And once again, I'm your host, Jason Price. Plug in and stay fully charged in the discussion by hopping into the community at energycentral.com. And we'll see you next time at the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast.

 

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The ‘Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast’ features conversations with thought leaders in the utility sector. At least twice monthly, we connect with an Energy Central Power Industry Network community member to discuss compelling topics that impact professionals who work in the power industry. Some podcasts may be a continuation of thought-provoking posts or discussions started in the community or with an industry leader that is interested in sharing their expertise and doing a deeper dive into hot topics or issues relevant to the industry.

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The Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast is hosted by Jason Price, Community Ambassador of Energy Central. Jason is a Business Development Executive at West Monroe, working in the East Coast Energy and Utilities Group. Jason is joined in the podcast booth by the producer of the podcast, Matt Chester, who is also the Community Manager of Energy Central and energy analyst/independent consultant in energy policy, markets, and technology.  

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