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Episode #176: "From Gas to Grid on the Energy Transition" with Aaron Choo, Vice President of Gas Network Operations at National Grid [an Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast]

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In this era of focus on decarbonized energy while also increased focus and attention from outside the utilities on power reliability, the role of natural gas for the grid has been under more of a spotlight than ever before. That evolving role of natural gas within the energy transition remains a critical topic at the forefront of every utility’s strategic planning, which necessitates constant attention and is the focus of a deep dive in today's episode. In this conversation, podcast host Jason Price and producer Matt Chester welcome in Aaron Choo, Vice President of Gas Network Operations at National Grid.

The Power Perspectives Podcast visited Aaron at his office in National Grid in person to hear his perspective on how National Grid is preparing its infrastructure, workforce, and strategies to remain resilient and adaptable during this unprecedented energy transition. With natural gas still playing a crucial role in the grid for the foreseeable future, Aaron addresses the challenges and opportunities of converting thermal loads to electric, overcoming public perceptions, and ensuring the readiness of the gas workforce for the future. Tune in to hear how National Grid is positioning itself to lead in both the present and future energy landscapes.

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Thanks to the sponsor of this episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast: West Monroe

 

Key Links:

Aaron Choo's profile on Energy Central: https://energycentral.com/member/profile/aaron-choo

Ask a Question to Our Future Guests: Do you have a burning question for the utility executives and energy industry thought leaders that we feature each week on the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast? Do you want to hear your voice on a future episode? Well starting in 2024, we’re offering you that opportunity! Head to this link where you can leave us a recorded message, including a question you’re eager to have answered on a future episode of the podcast. We’ll listen through them, pick out the right guests in our upcoming lineup to address them, and you’ll hear yourself as a part of the conversation! Energy Central on SpeakPipe: www.speakpipe.com/EnergyCentralPodcast

 

TRANSCRIPT

Jason Price:

The energy transition. It's the subtext of every utility sector conversation taking place today. And while some position fossil fuels as the public enemy number one, the reality remains that natural gas, specifically, will continue to play a key role on the grid for years to come, perhaps even seeing the gas transform itself to best be able to fit the needs of the energy sector for the foreseeable future. So what are the utilities with gas assets doing to make sure their infrastructure, workforce, and programs are well-suited to continue amid this unprecedented journey? We'll cover these questions and more with the utility executive next on the Energy Central Power Perspectives podcast.

Welcome to the Energy Central Power Perspectives podcast where we bring leading minds from the energy industry into the podcast booth to discuss the challenges and trends that are transforming and modernizing our energy system. And our listeners can now submit a recorded question to a future podcast episode. Just look for the speak pipe link in the show notes below this episode, and leave us a voicemail with a question for a future guest. I'm Jason Price, energy Central podcast host and director with West Monroe, coming to you from New York City. And with me as always, from Orlando, Florida is Energy Central producer and community manager, Matt Chester. Matt, what are the types of discussions taking place on energycentral.com when it comes to the role of gas and the energy systems of tomorrow?

 

Matt Chester:

Thanks for that question, Jason. And of course, the energy transition broadly, it's a frequent and it's a major topic for the energy central community. It's one that inspires passionate debate. And as like you said, some will position eliminating fossil fuels as a main focus while others are cautioning against the unintended consequences of moving away from gas as a base load fuel too hastily. And so as with many topics in this landscape, the common sentiment probably lands somewhere in the middle looking at natural gas as maybe a bridge fuel, but still planning for a future of cleaner energy sources, whatever those might be. So the essential nature of gas for grid reliability, it remains a tool that best enables that transition. And we're seeing that discussion on Energy Central. And then looking further ahead, we're also seeing our community members engage in regular discussions about innovations, things like renewable gas or hydrogen blending or carbon capture, all of which could bring new enthusiasm and opportunity for the future role of gas.

 

Jason Price:

Thanks, Matt. It's always helpful to understand the perspective of our audience and we'll aim to dive in more deeply during today's episode. So first I want to give a quick thank you to West Monroe, our sponsor of today's show. And with that, let's introduce today's guest. I'm on location in Brooklyn, New York in the executive office of National Grid. And with me is Aaron Choo, a rising star in this multinational energy corporation. Aaron has served during the past three years as the vice president of gas network operations at National Grid. But he's actually in the midst of a transition to a new role at the utility. So I'd love to hear more about that and dive into what his perspective is when it comes to the role of gas at National Grid. So with that, Aaron Choo, welcome to the Energy Central Power Perspectives podcast.

 

Aaron Choo:

Thank you, Jason, and really glad to be here. Really glad to talk about National Grid and the work that we're doing to ensure safe, reliable, and affordable service to our customers during this clean energy transition. So National Grid operates in two territories in the US, New York and Massachusetts. Millions of customers depend on us to power their homes and their businesses. So as we work towards this clean energy future, it's important for us to recognize our customers. That's who we should be placing first in this transition. And today I'm really excited to talk about some of the strategies we have to not only reduce emissions, but ensure again that we provide safe, reliable, and affordable service.

 

Jason Price:

Fantastic. Well, we're looking forward to it. And as I mentioned in the lead-up, you recently assumed a new role as VP of network operations in the gas group. So give our listeners the insights into that new role and what are the expectations? And how are you being measured?

 

Aaron Choo:

So Vice President of Gas Network operations, a really critical role here at National Grid. We maintain, along with our operating and construction groups, approximately 30,000 miles of a gas distribution network. And behind that network is approximately 3.4 million customers between New York and Massachusetts. So when you think about what that network provides, it's the ability to heat their home, cook their food, and power their businesses. And that's not all that we do. So we did lead in with the clean energy transition, but importantly for National Grid, we are also looking at new technologies that would reduce emissions. That would be everything from renewable natural gas to even hydrogen blending and geothermal. And this is all critical to us because at National Grid, it's not just we provide safe, reliable service, it's our obligation in which to do so for our customers and supporting the clean energy transition,

 

Jason Price:

Aaron, as we teased in the intro, the energy transition is in full swing. What do you see as the most significant challenges preparing for that transition, particularly in the regions where the gas infrastructure is heaviest?

 

Aaron Choo:

Great question, Jason. I think, for us, the key word there is going to be balance. How do we balance the need to decarbonize our network to reduce emissions as well as maintaining reliable service. So as you unpack that, there's a lot in there, especially what is available today. So to get to reduced emissions or even to this clean energy transition, renewable energy is going to be critical to that demand. And right now the supply just isn't there. So when we think about everything that's needed there from renewable energy, whether it's solar, wind, right now, it's in its infancy and it's growing. So it is scaling, not to say it's not there, but we definitely don't want to have a hasty decision to move quickly to electrification, which could impact our customers, not only with cost, but also reliability in terms of frequent outages. So as you said, we are in Brooklyn, New York today, so as we could see from the building stock out there, these are some pre-war, some very old buildings.

So in order to electrify them, that's not a very quick decision in which to make as well as the technology that's available to convert these buildings. And as we think about what that does, it also now that's added cost potentially to the building owners, which subsequently trickles down to the apartment owners as well. So with that, trying to get all this renewable energy onto the system, National Grid along with others within the industry, we're working hard to get that capacity built out, whether it's the supply from the renewable energy to also the transmission of that energy throughout the system.

So when we look at it, that's going to take time. However, let's not wait for that to happen. We could decarbonize starting today with the technologies that are in place. So I mentioned before there's renewable natural gas, there's green hydrogen, there's geothermal that really do help in reducing emissions, but also limit the strain on the electric grid today so that we allow these technologies to catch up to they could scale and sustain for the future in terms of what to have the supply meet the demand. Again, we all want to get to the same place. We want reduced emissions. We want that clean energy transition, but also let's do so with the customer in mind, making sure it's affordable.

 

Jason Price:

Okay. Well I want to ask you a bit more about, you mentioned Brooklyn, so the infrastructure level about all this, because we're talking about converting thermal load to electric load. I'd like you to dive a little bit more into the planning side of this. So how do you envision bridging this gap that you're describing, this alternative fuels, and how is National Grid planning for this period of transition?

 

Aaron Choo:

So yes, the thermal load, that's an interesting, I guess, dynamic in terms of when you look at the gas thermal load. So at its peak demand, just for context, let's say on the coldest day or the design days, as we look at it in the gas industry, electricity is three times that. So again, what does that context mean? So if for folks on the phone, if you're trying to visualize this, it's think of the grid today three times that, that what is needed in which, so that's more wires, more generation that's needed to now replace that gas load that's in existence today. Again, what is that going to take? Time and money to build that out. You could do anything with time and money, but we know that's a precious resource in which to get. Again, as we said, so for National Grid, we are working hard as well as others within the industry.

And especially for us here in New York and Mass, we are aligned with the clean energy goals that they have in place. However, to get all these, we can't wait for this new technology to start reducing emissions. We could start reducing emissions today. So I think that's what I'm here to say with the technology that's in place. And for some of these things that are in place today, it is, again, fully aligned to our clean energy goals within the New York and Massachusetts states. And a couple of examples for that. We did enter into a partnership with the New York City Department of Environmental Protection to capture waste gas from its wastewater treatment plant, which would otherwise be flared to the atmosphere. Again, when you think about the carbon footprint in totality, that's now taking a flue gas that would've been burned to atmosphere and now recapturing, making it useful, and putting it back into the system, benefiting customers that again, that on average at full capacity, that rig which is currently in operation, will provide a power or at least gas to 5,200 homes.

That's for hot water, that's for cooking, that's for heating. Very good in that respect, in terms of carbon capture and putting it back into the gas system. On Long Island, we are looking at potentially looking into a hydrogen pilot. It's called HyGrid, hydrogen, National Grid, HyGrid, where we'll take green hydrogen and place it back into the distribution system so that if we were to get that up and running, that should provide enough blending of hydrogen into the natural gas system, about 20%, enough to provide energy to about 800 homes. Very good pilots that we would want to implement for the future.

 

Jason Price:

So I'm hearing though these technologies are a mix of new and cleaner fuels. Some blending, so green hydrogen, which is great, but then you're blending it into other fuels. So at the end of the day though, it's burning.

 

Aaron Choo:

Yes.

 

Jason Price:

And I recall from a previous discussion leading up to this podcast, you had mentioned the perception that gas is a four letter word. So how do you address these attitudes when trying to look ahead for the role gas can and should play in the future?

 

Aaron Choo:

Yeah, I think it's important to ground ourselves in is that, again, while the gas network is in place, we have a moral obligation to maintain the safety and reliability of that network. So yes, as combustion could be visual in terms of what it's potentially emitting, the reality is the technology isn't there right now, today, to replace it. Again, we all want to get to the same place, and if we could allow ourselves to let the technology catch up. And what do I mean by that in terms of the geothermal equipment needed for homes, the upgrade of the electric system for not just homeowners but businesses as well. And as it bears repeating, how do we continue to decarbonize the existing gas system? Can we burn cleaner? Yes, we can. It shouldn't be a binary choice. We should be able to do both.

And as things scale, on the electric side, we want to be able to do that in a sustainable way and a very thoughtful way, not just for the technology but, again, grounding ourselves in let's keep the customers in mind that we're going to continue to provide affordable, safe, reliable service.

 

Jason Price:

Yeah. Well, for our listeners, I can see, Aaron, you're very passionate about what you're talking about and what this all means. I know also from the lead up, you're also very passionate about what this means for the workforce development and the ability to shift the hardworking men and women of National Grid to future roles outside of gas. When you look at National Grid's gas workforce today, how do you see transforming their current skills for future needs?

 

Aaron Choo:

So one of the things I got to say about our employees here at Grid, they are core to our business. So whether it's on the gas side or the electric side of business, it's critical for them that they understand that they do have the skills today that could transfer into the clean energy projects of tomorrow. So continuing to enhance that and even providing the training that is necessary for them to further their skills into the energy transition, that's going to be paramount for us. So working with not just National Grid, but our labor partners, they're going to be critical for us to ensure that we keep either the new technologies at the forefront, even the skill set, soft skills that may be required for the energy transition. But again, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. We still also need them to maintain the networks today, whether it's gas or electric. And they're going to be doing that. And again, training again just leads us to safety and reliability.

 

Jason Price:

Yeah, no doubt. So how about this. Take us into the room where you're giving the orientation to new gas employees. They've just joined. What are you telling them? Do you address the challenges of what they're facing? If the goal, again, is to transition away from gas at some point in the future, it doesn't seem like a solid career path. So what do you say to them?

 

Aaron Choo:

No, I think, and that's very important question that we should be addressing with employees because whether they see it on the news or whatever they're reading, it's important to understand the network is going to be here for the coming decades. When we look at gas in terms of what's needed, not just for today, but for the future, there is always going to be a role. So it's not a matter of when, we still have to do these things. So while that is ultimately the future, we still have to maintain this network. And that's going to be on a broken record, I'm going to keep repeating that to folks. So the skill sets that they're going to be afforded in terms of the management of natural gas, even the installation of the infrastructure needed for that, that could potentially transfer, let's say, into geothermal, which natural gas is laying pipes, connecting to the gas network.

Geothermal is also laying pipes and connecting to a network. Again, if you're digging holes, guess what? Gas you dig holes. Geothermal, you dig holes. I mean that's very basic in just its definition. But when you think about the upscaling, which will be more so on the technology front, yes, that's where we need to ensure that they are at the ready because the other thing they need to remember is, again, as the energy transition is in flight and it takes off, there's going to be people needed for both maintaining the gas network and this energy transition. So I think they will be in a very unique place in terms of which career path they take. So it's not about being locked into a career path that's essentially going to end. It's, no, where's it going to evolve? So it's not about ending, it's about the whole energy evolution. And it's not just for the clean energy transition, it's for the workforce as well.

 

Jason Price:

Yeah. Well we have a big academic community that listens to these podcasts. And for all those engineers who are about to graduate from college, and maybe non-engineers, but who are interested in the utility world, they're looking at and you're competing with the Silicon Valley and here in New York, so you have Silicon Alley, so you have the technology, you also have the electric side of things. So you have challenges in recruitment and development. What are you seeing, how are you addressing the workforce challenges for the gas future?

 

Aaron Choo:

Great point. Not just the energy transition is some of the things that are some challenges, but again, resources in general for different, and not just energy sectors, but just as you said, big tech, any jobs that come into play. So it's important for National Grid. So we are both gas and electric. Number one, the energy transition is not just for what new technology is there? It is about also the people. And this is a once in a generation opportunity, I think, not just for our existing employees, but for the future employees as well. So when you look at building out the infrastructure needs that it's going to be needed for this energy transition, both New York and Massachusetts in terms of our territories, this is not just going to create thousands of jobs, but billions of dollars in economic activity. So when you think about that in terms of scale, there is going to be a gap.

A gap, meaning we may not have the resources that are required in which to continue this build out. So you don't just start from when you need that project today, you need to go upstream of that. So how do you start building that pipeline? And for National Grid, we do have that opportunity in terms of ensuring that we build that pipeline with STEM initiatives. And that could be from middle school to high school to college to vocational, as well as we were looking for resources and we're saying, we're going to have a deficit. One of the things that National Grid, we pride ourselves on, is ensuring that no one is left behind. So folks in underserved communities, this is an opportunity for us to do that outreach and working with our partners. And whether it's academia, college universities, not-for-profits, building that pipeline, getting the folks the skills required in which to contribute to this energy transition, whether it's maintaining our network today or building the energy network of tomorrow.

So a couple of programs, I'll be remiss if I didn't mention them, in terms of workforce development, in terms of who we've partnered with. You said electric. We've partnered with Hudson Valley Community College,.it's a line worker certification program. We've done so for the last 15 years. So again, poles and wires, that's key to us. In New York City, we've also supported the New York City Housing Authority. So think about that, that's housing. But again, this program now helps train residents for work on renewable energy projects, not just within the NYCHA system, but just public housing in general. Again, just giving folks the skillsets and the opportunity to go into this job field. In Mass, really proud of what they've done in a development pilot phase, but also seeing initially some really great results. So it's like a four-pronged approach to looking at. If there are adults that want to transition into a new career.

There's an energy infrastructure academy. Looking, again, we drill down. College and universities, Clean Energy Careers Academy, making sure for folks that are in college, this is a potential path. And as we go into high school and vocational, Clean Energy Tech Academy. And even going into the middle school/ so Jason, I know you have young kids. In case they want to think about that, so Clean Energy STEM Academy again. So utilizing science, technology, engineering, and math, and building that pipeline, because we said it's not just about the hands-on skills, it's about, what knowledge are we imparting onto these young folks in terms of getting ready for these jobs for the future? So very, again, all hands on deck, it's not one approach if it's just one of many. And we're proud to say, we're part of this and building that pipeline.

 

Jason Price:

Interesting. All right, well Aaron, now that you're warmed up, let me ask you this question. As we talk about the need to transition operationally on a workforce basis and more as a utility and gas and electric asset basis, how does the world of public policy and regulation come into play? And more so, what are some of the current regulatory challenges you face? And how do you ensure to stay on the right side of policymakers as they look to maybe set the course of the future energy systems in a different direction or at a different pace than perhaps you would like?

 

Aaron Choo:

So I think it's, again, important for us to ground ourselves that we're working towards the same goal. It's not about picking one side or the other. We are completely aligned, at least, in the states in which we operate, with New York and Mass knowing that we want the clean energy transition for all. But we also have to maintain our obligation to our customers. So what do we mean by that? Again, maintaining safe, reliable service. But when we look at the potential path, there's two paths you can take, whether it's either via regulation or legislation. And sometimes one leapfrogs the other. That could potentially create some roadblocks, if you would, and ultimately it's having that common sense approach. So we do want to have these conversations and ensure that these processes are streamlined because one of the things we have seen, it's unfortunately permitting. Just to get projects going cited and implemented.

The permitting process may not have been ready for all of this need for the energy transition. What do I mean by that? As all these projects are now at a furious pace, are trying to get online, are they aware of everything that needs to be done from the environmental studies to the impacts, everything else? And I think some of those are now overlapping. So how do we streamline that permitting process in itself? Again, it's going to take a very pragmatic approach along with legislatures, regulators to ensure that again, we're working towards the same goal. How do we get there and do it in a very sustainable way? That's going to be key. So in New York, governor Hochul did create the Office of Renewable Energy Siting. Again, this is bringing various stakeholders to meet with the state regulators and agencies to ensure the process is moving forward.

Things could get as a logjam in certain parts of the process, so this is to ensure, what are those roadblocks so that we could streamline? In Mass, there's a Mass Usage Commission on energy infrastructure siting and permitting doing the same thing. Again, trying to streamline the process. As these processes now are now taking shape and evolving and eliminating those barriers or those roadblocks, it's a good chance of some of these becoming lost. And that's on the state level. Also on the federal level, again, how do we, not say, eliminate bureaucracy, but work within the framework. So again, so that the infrastructure bills come through, that streamlines into the state and we work again in a sustainable way to ensure that these projects are ready. It is very balanced. So that again, when we think about the states in which we operate, it should be multi-pronged. It shouldn't be one approach. So we definitely, again, maintaining the system. Can we decarbonize?

Yes. So it's a mix of energy. So when we say renewable clean energy, this is the best to ensure customer choice and reduce emissions while providing affordability. We don't want to get lost in that aspect of customers, is can they afford this transition going forward? That's why I hope today and with our conversation, it's hopefully we. It's not the end, but the start of the conversation of, how do we work together? It's not, again, about winners or losers. It's we're all in this together, we want to get to the same goal. But can we do it safely, reliably, and affordable for all our customers?

 

Jason Price:

Yeah, no, certainly very comprehensive and complex, no doubt. So Aaron, at this point we are going to pivot to what we call the lightning round, which gives us an opportunity to learn more about you, the person, rather than you, the professional. So we have a bunch of questions we're going to throw at you. We ask you to keep your response to brief answer or even a one word if you've got it. So are you ready?

 

Aaron Choo:

Yes, sir.

 

Jason Price:

All right, here we go. What's your favorite way to unwind after a busy day?

 

Aaron Choo:

The power of walking.

 

Jason Price:

What's a hobby you wish you had more time for?

 

Aaron Choo:

Outdoor biking.

 

Jason Price:

What's the most rewarding part of your job?

 

Aaron Choo:

Helping my colleagues grow and giving them a purpose.

 

Jason Price:

We're collecting lightning round questions from past podcast guests to ask future guests. We had Frederick Joseck from Idaho National Lab and he wanted to know what are the best ways for tax incentives and credits from the Inflation Reduction Act to be applied? And what are the implications?

 

Aaron Choo:

One of the things that come to mind is it's about helping customers. And in terms of making clean energy technologies affordable, number one, and which also gives them the opportunity to participate in the energy transition.

 

Jason Price:

All right, now it's your turn. What lightning round question do you want to challenge a future guest to answer? It can be topical and related to energy or it can be an off-the-wall question.

 

Aaron Choo:

Let's go with, what do you think the energy transition would look like in 10 years? Will we still be transitioning? Don't know.

 

Jason Price:

Interesting question. And lastly, what are you most motivated by?

 

Aaron Choo:

My wife and two daughters. That is my family. So they keep me sane and whole. It's working for them and making this world a better place.

 

Jason Price:

That's great. All right, thanks Aaron. We've definitely learned a lot from this unique vantage point that you bring and we want to give you the final word or the last word, let's put it that way. And for that I want you to look ahead. What are the key priorities for ensuring that National Grid remains a leader in both gas and electric operations during this energy transition?

 

Aaron Choo:

Again, thank you for having me, Jason. When we look ahead, the top priority is how I started the conversation. We need to put our customers at the front and center of this energy transition. So when we think about National Grid, and we're not just an energy provider, we are part of our customer's lives in essence and as well as their community. And even for myself, I live and work in this community as well. So I am personally motivated as long as my colleagues to follow through on our commitment to providing, again, safe, affordable, reliable gas and electric service to our customers. As we move forward in transition, I mentioned earlier, it's not mutually exclusive. It's not binary. It's not this or that. It's this and that. So reducing emissions and meeting the clean energy goals of both New York and Massachusetts without compromising service to our customers.

Again, I'm proud of the team at National Grid in terms of what we do each and every day to provide that safe, reliable, and affordable service. But we are also proud of decarbonizing the gas network and what does that look for the future. So I know for myself as well as my colleagues, we are excited about the clean energy transition and what it could look like. And looking forward to working with everyone at all levels in both New York and Mass, whether it's government, industry, communities, to ensure that no one is left behind in this clean energy transition.

 

Jason Price:

Excellent. And thank you very much for these insights. And we really appreciate and you certainly make my job easier. So I really appreciate the conversation we've had. And I'm sure our listeners will have some comments, questions, and follow-ups and we invite them to leave those in the comment section of the Energy Central Post for this episode. And when they do, we'll invite you back, Aaron, to hop in and keep the conversation going. Until then though, we just want to thank you for sharing your insight with us on today's episode of the podcast.

 

Aaron Choo:

Thank you, Jason.

 

Jason Price:

You can always reach Aaron at Energy Central where he welcomes your questions and comments. We also want to give a shout out of thanks to the podcast sponsors that made today's episode possible. Thanks to West Monroe. West Monroe is a leading partner for the nation's largest electric gas and water utilities working together to drive modernization, clean energy, and workforce transformation. West Monroe's comprehensive services are designed to support utilities in advancing their digital transformation, building resilient operations, securing federal funding, and providing regulatory advisory support. With a multidisciplinary team of experts, West Monroe offers a holistic approach that addresses the challenges of the grid today and provides innovative solutions for a sustainable future. And once again, I'm your host, Jason Price. Plug in and stay fully charged in the discussion by hopping into the community at energycentral.com. And we'll see you next time at the Energy Central Power Perspectives podcast.

 

About Energy Central Podcasts

The ‘Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast’ features conversations with thought leaders in the utility sector. At least twice monthly, we connect with an Energy Central Power Industry Network community member to discuss compelling topics that impact professionals who work in the power industry. Some podcasts may be a continuation of thought-provoking posts or discussions started in the community or with an industry leader that is interested in sharing their expertise and doing a deeper dive into hot topics or issues relevant to the industry.

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The Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast is hosted by Jason Price, Community Ambassador of Energy Central. Jason is a Business Development Executive at West Monroe, working in the East Coast Energy and Utilities Group. Jason is joined in the podcast booth by the producer of the podcast, Matt Chester, who is also the Community Manager of Energy Central and energy analyst/independent consultant in energy policy, markets, and technology.  

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