Episode #123: 'Exploring the Role of Gas in the Decarbonization Journey' with Suzanne Ogle, President and CEO of Southern Gas Association [an Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast]

To help explain these ideas that may run counter to some of the common narratives, the latest episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast welcomes in Suzanne Ogle, the President and CEO of Southern Gas Association (SGA). In this conversation, Suzanne discusses with podcast host Jason Price and producer Matt Chester the role of SGA, the opportunities that gas present to proliferate decarbonized energy, and the outlook for the industry in the years to come.

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Thanks to the sponsor of this episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast: West Monroe.  

Key Links:

Suzanne Ogle's Energy Central Profile: https://energycentral.com/member/profile/suzanne-ogle/about 

Did you know? The Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast has been identified as one of the industry's 'Top 25 Energy Podcasts': blog.feedspot.com/energy_podcasts/ 

TRANSCRIPT

Jason Price: 

Welcome to the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast, the show that brings leading minds from the energy industry to discuss the challenges and trends that are transforming and modernizing our energy system. And a quick thank you to West Monroe, our sponsor of today's show. Now, let's talk energy. I am Jason Price, Energy Central Podcast host and director with West Monroe, coming to you from New York City. And with me, as always, from Orlando, Florida is Energy Central producer and community manager, Matt Chester. Matt, as the global energy systems move towards decarbonization, a lightning rod of a topic has remained, the natural gas industry. You have staunch supporters who highlight the role that natural gas can play as a base load power source that's less carbon intensive than coal and can uniquely fill some energy needs. But you also have a contingent of the energy sector who simply see it as a fossil fuel and thus part of the problem. So Matt, how do these conversations typically play out on the pages of energycentral.com?

Matt Chester: 

Well, Jason, I think you're exactly right when you call it a bit of a lightning rod, the role of gas inspires passion from all sides of the industry. But through it all, the common lines that you see threaded throughout the discussions are the common goals that we all have, a mission to reduce power sector emissions, an inflexible need for electricity availability to remain at maximum reliability, and the goal for those to be met in a way that's not overly expensive for customers. So the professional community at Energy Central, I would say, keeps those principles at the core while playing out the expected debates on what the ideal pathway is to achieve those goals.

Jason Price: 

That's great, Matt. Thank you. Well, as the US continues to debate the role that gas plays today and tomorrow and in our everyday lives, it's important to make sure we are fully educated on the innovative and critical work being done by those working in the gas industry. So to help inform us and guide this conversation, we have one of the leaders in the US natural gas sector joining us today who can share the facts and give us some insights into what we can expect in the years to come, with us today is Suzanne Ogle, the president and CEO of the Southern Gas Association or SGA. Suzanne, welcome to the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast.

Suzanne Ogle: 

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here and privileged to be on talking to you guys. I really appreciate the conversation that we're about to have.

Jason Price: 

Oh, much appreciate it and we feel the same way. So before we dive in, give us an overview of who the Southern Gas Association is for our listeners and who may not be fully aware of how the SGA works, where it's located, and who it serves.

Suzanne Ogle: 

Right, the name Southern slightly misleading. We're a National Gas Trade Association. We're based in Dallas, but we have more than 600 corporate members that are throughout all of North America. And something that's really unique about Southern Gas Association is that we represent the entire value chain from the wellhead to the burner tip. Our mission is linking people, ideas, and information, was founded back in 1908. We were really founded to help scale America's infrastructure as they were putting it in for the demand after the war. And then really to solve common problems with common solutions to help scale effectiveness and, like I said, energy infrastructure. But we're really first and foremost a training organization. So we provide forums to facilitate learning and that could look like a class, it could be a conference, it could be committee meetings, and all of them are designed to help operators and our associate members to improve operations, come up with innovative ideas, and create safe and reliable systems and a really vibrant workforce for tomorrow. So it could be anywhere from a technical topic like rate making or station design or into a leadership topic like moving from a peer to a leader. And all those are opportunities to really create the best and the brightest professionals to run the energy systems that we need.

Jason Price: 

Right. And so as the go-to arm for the gas association, you likely have a pulse of the gas industry better than anyone in this country. So can you talk to us about the general outlook of leaders across the industry today amid talks of gas bans, efforts to decarbonize and other narratives that are pushing back against the natural gas sector? What is the mood of the sector and the priorities for the coming years?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Yeah. Well, it reminds me of an old saying, "Rumors of my demise are overstated." So I know we've all seen the headlines and there's groups that are calling into question the future of natural gas, and those voices are really loud, but I'll tell you, they're not representative of what the majority of Americans think or what they want. You could look at gas polling around natural gas and it really shows bipartisan support for natural gas. I think the numbers are something like 66% of Democrats, 63% of independents and 85% of Republicans all have a really favorable opinion of what natural gas is and how it belongs in the energy system. Think if you had a political candidate with that much support, they'd be thrilled, wouldn't they?

But if you see this playing out in real time within states, they're passing energy choice legislation. There's like 24 states, I think, now that have energy choice and just bills are getting overwhelmingly bipartisan support. You could see it playing out in real time, like I said, in Prop K that was in El Paso which just recently it required the use of renewables only by 2045, and that was just defeated by over 80% of a vote. So I think the American public recognizes and supports the important role of natural gas and what it plays in our energy portfolio and America's energy future. So that said, our leaders, our industry leaders know this. And so while it's frustrating to deal with all the negative talk or a negative campaign, I don't think that they get caught up in the, "I know you are, but what am I game?" Our industry leaders are really remaining focused on the goal that they have at hand, which is delivering reliable, clean energy framework and the products that benefit us here in America and frankly around the world.

I would tell you that they're optimistic and they're bullish on gas. I think another reason for the optimism is we have the practical benefit of understanding how the energy system works and how to use the commodity of gas to accomplish the desired outcomes to meet the goals of the SDGs. And so I think maybe probably three reasons. I would say overall people are positive about gas, and that's number one, weather. I think you can see all the more extreme weather that we have these days, whether that's arctic air or a heat wave sweeping across our country. And that combined with the renewables, it really translates into a strong demand for natural gas and an on-demand energy source. You can see Texas just last week was saying, "Hey, they're not sure they're going to be able to meet the heat wave." So whereas gas used to be a cold weather insulation for our energy system, it's now a hot weather too because of the increased electrification.

If I was thinking about another reason that I think our leaders are really positive about natural gas, it's that urgency for negative carbon emissions and frankly, renewables just can't deliver that. So if you look at gas, it's your ace in the hole for carbon neutrality, the CO2 that's released into the atmosphere from human activity, it has to be balanced by an equivalent of that being removed. And well, there's a number of different ways you can remove CO2, whether that's reforestation or whether that's from natural based solutions like enhanced natural processes and using the land in that way. But really the most effective way to remove and create this negative emissions' scenario is through the technological advantages in using natural gas in things like renewable natural gas or direct air capture or CCUS. And then if you move over to more of a macro level, I would say that longer term outlook is positive because of the geopolitical instability and then population growth, which is going to demand more and more and more clean energy, and you're going to need more food for the people. So all those reasons are really positive reasons why natural gas has a very viable future.

Jason Price: 

Right, right. No, for sure. You did open the door to a couple of things, one, decarbonization and then, two, what's the future look like. So I'd like to hear from you and share to our audience what are some of your top priorities? What would you tout as the key role that the gas sector and SGA members will play in, say, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Yeah, great question. You don't want to just look today, and I think a lot of people look at natural gas as a bridge fuel to maybe a lower emissions today from these higher emitting energy. I'm going to tell you this is one of the things that I keep pounding my drum on is people inside our industry and people outside our industry keep using the word transition, and I think that's a really misleading word. I think it's been the catalyst for some confusion and misinformation that we're bombarded with. If I think about the word transition, that means to move from one to another with one going away and practically and ideologically, that's not going to happen, nor is it the best solution. So I believe everybody should replace this word transition with the word evolution, which is exactly what we're doing with our energy system and our industry's doing that as well. We're evolving.

And so if you ask me what's in store for the natural gas industry, I'm going to tell you it's more technology, it's simpler processes, it's higher productivity, it's tighter systems, and all these things are going to curb the impact on the environment. And so natural gas, our industry's road to internal sustainability, I would tell you, I believe, runs parallel to environmental sustainability. And so while there are people who are entrenched in the assumption that the world can survive without natural gas or fossil fuels for that matter, I would tell you that we're actually the hero here to help people reach the common goals and provide intergenerational wellbeing in a really predictable and resilient, which is probably the key word, is resilient, energy system.

Jason Price: 

Suzanne, in the lead up to today's call, when we met, you talked about an analogy around basically people are trying to use the natural gas system as, I think you said, a Ferrari rather than treat it as a locomotive. I remember walking away, I thought that was an interesting analogy. Basically the punchline of this. Can you share to our audience what you mean by this?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Yeah, so as soon as I said that, I thought locomotive has the old school visual. And so when I think about natural gas, I always say, "Hey, it's not your grandfather's natural gas." But what I meant by that was as you add more renewables onto the grid, and this push for electrification that you see, more gas is being directed to power plants to provide the electricity that people are asking for. And so the beauty of gas is that it's a clean base load and that's the locomotive. Really steady, firm, predictable, chugging along here going to be able to run your system. The other benefit of natural gas is that it can provide on demand energy during peak demand. So that's the Ferrari part. So maybe I should have said a locomotive and a Ferrari. But when I say they're trying to use it like a Ferrari, what I really mean is that reliable energy system requires understanding and planning for both the base load and the peak demand.

And right now there's a big push for focusing on the peak demand, but a disregard for the base load. And so you have to think about both. So that increasing reliance on renewables when the weather's moderate and demand's normal, the system can be managed using gas as the base load and renewables as maybe the icing on the cake. But it's only when you get into that really stressed out situation where you need to bring on additional energy fast, that's the Ferrari part. That's how they're using gas right now is the Ferrari. So they need to use it as both. And so when they're leaning into gas to bridge the gap that's not provided when in an extreme situation where the windmills not be blowing, or the sun's not shining, or there's cloud cover or whatever that looks like, they're using gas so they don't have to have demand restrictions on access to energy or make those really critical decisions about you get energy, you don't.

And I know we've all been accustomed to really reliable energy and that's not the case around the world. And so I do not believe that America's going to be okay with, "Hey, the right stride of the streets gets energy for two to four, and the left side gets it from one to three," I'm showing my age here. But if you flash back to when there was a fuel shortage in cars, and you had to get your car filled on even or odd days so that we don't end up in that situation. They need to make sure that you have to invest in both. So you have to have that clean, reliable base load with the infrastructure that supports it, be natural gas, and you need to use natural gas as a on demand source as well, so you have a resilient energy system.

Jason Price: 

Yeah, understood. All right, so Suzanne, my next question is really around messaging and messaging to the public. As an association, you are the eyes and ears and mouth to an industry, and in this case the gas industry. So my question is really around what is the role that you play in terms of messaging that and how do you make the conversation, how do you shift the conversation from something that's perhaps negative to something that's constructive and meaningful on behalf of your customers but also satisfying the public, the audience that's listening to your messages?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Right, that's really the challenge of our world today, isn't it? Unfortunately, our culture really thrives on polarization and sensationalism. I think the mainstream news media, they stoke that, they gain viewers when they have fear mongering rather than rational discourse. But that said, our industry's really, I would say, done a poor job of connecting with people. If you think back about the way we've gone about that, we've gone from an approach of data rather than connecting and understanding the concerns and then building trust on what are the common goals and where are we aligned. And I think that really is ultimately the key to any messaging and building a relationship is connecting on a human to human level and being transparent and informed and then listening to understand rather to be understood.

I think sometimes our industry's coming in with a bit of an arrogance just like, "Hey, we provide reliable power for you. Don't ask questions." And I don't think that's constructive, and I don't think it moves the needle in the direction we want to go, nor is it collaborative. So I encourage our entire industry to really connect with hearts and minds and listen, what are the fears? I can give you an example of my own father. He comes from the mindset of what if they're right, even though he's a consumer of natural gas. And so he lives his life and has a very comfortable way of living in his home and an affordable way of living. He's 87 and on a fixed income and it works for him, but he's also a little scared. So we sit down and have conversations and I listen to what he's saying and what are his fears. And I help him understand when you flip the switch at the wall or when you turn your stove on, or when you heat your pool or your generator, where does that come from?

And then how does the energy system work and what are the pros and cons of every source? Because every source has a pro and a con. I think ultimately we've got to get to where we're using an unemotional approach to our energy system that you have to be agnostic to your energy source. What is the cleanest? What is the most affordable? What is the best fit for this situation? And so that's really where SGA can come in because we can be an advocate for the industry because our core business is training and learning and educating, and that's really what we espouse, is let's all sit down and have a conversation and we can explore different ideas without being adversaries.

Jason Price: 

I'd like to take a moment and pivot over to the policy and regulatory side if we can. What sort of support do you and your SGA members hope to get from Washington as well as state and local governments to enable you to meet these possibilities we've been discussing today?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Sure. Well, let me, as I just said, SGA is a training organization. We're not a lobbying organization. Our sister organizations like AGA, APGA, INGAA, API, all the all the As, IPAA. They're all the lobbying arms of the industry and their primary function is to work with Washington to create regulations in a business and landscape that's conducive to doing business and having investor confidence. But from SGAs point of view, I think what we would hope to communicate and educate on is the need for a cohesive energy policy that's consistent. So investors have confidence when they invest in a company that it's not going to be unprofitable investment and that our communities can be assured that the systems that they put in place are going to be able to help with their economic growth and provide the people that live in those communities with energy that's resilient and that is affordable and that there's some justice to the way energy is going to be dispersed. And so that's really where SGA comes into that, is to helping educate, whether it's a community, whether it's at a state level. I know up on the hill, they're smart people, and so helping them understand what they're voting for and against is important. And so as an education association, that's really our primary focus on that side.

Jason Price: 

Terrific. So Suzanne, I will say that we threw some tough questions at you and you've done remarkably well in responding to them. So thank you for your insight and sharing this, your perspective, thoughtful perspective here. But now we're going to pivot to what we call the lightning round, which is where we're going to ask you a set of questions, this time, these will be questions about Suzanne Ogle, the person rather than the professional. Some people may find these questions to be even more difficult than the ones we ask. But I think you might find these ones... In this case, we've already thrown the hard ones at you. So are you ready?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Yeah, I am. I like the hard ones. I love talking about energy, so I'll do that all day long, but I'll go ahead and indulge a little bit of talking about me.

Jason Price: 

Okay. So Suzanne, what type of snack are you grabbing from the convenience store on a road trip?

Suzanne Ogle: 

I enjoy a road trip, but I get tired when I drive. So my snack at any convenience store is the Starbucks double shot mocha. It keeps me awake.

Jason Price: 

Do you have a comfort movie, TV show or book that you can revisit time and again?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Another twisted thing about Suzanne is I don't repeat, so I don't watch anything twice. However, if I was going to watch something twice, I really like humor, so I would pick something that's pithy, clever, funny, maybe like a Seinfeld or something.

Jason Price: 

Okay. What's the best gift you've ever received?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Oh, good question. I would say time, when someone spends time with me. And so I think that's probably the best gift anybody can give you is their time.

Jason Price: 

If you didn't end up working in the energy sector, where do you think your career would've taken you?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Okay, so I'll throw back to when I was seven years old. I really wanted to be a pilot. My father was a pilot, long line of people in my family, pilot. And so after I got to be an adult and I had enough money, because it's expensive to be a pilot, decided I'd try it. But I am the worst person at landing. I'm the queen of the go-around. I could take off like there's no tomorrow, but I could never get the plane on the ground. So that would've been what I would've done, but thank goodness I didn't go that direction because I think I'm way better at energy, plus I love it.

Jason Price: 

Okay. And what will success look like for you at the end of your career?

Suzanne Ogle: 

Well, that's not in sight, so just put that out on the market. Listen, I like learning. I will do anything to learn. So if I was going to say, "What does career success look like at the end of my career?" It's that I learned and I helped other people learn. And this is a fantastic industry. So if I could show up for this industry by providing opportunities and opening a mind or two, or communicating like a normal person in a difficult conversation, then I'm going to call that success.

Jason Price: 

Fantastic. Well, thanks for indulging us in the lightning round, and as a reward, we're going to give you the final word. So what do you hope to be the last resounding message that your listeners will take away from today's discussion?

Suzanne Ogle: 

That I think if you're from the energy industry, then my message to you would be listen and approach what people are saying and listen to what their fears are. If you're not from the energy industry, my takeaway would be, did you learn something? And if you have a question, reach out to me. You can find me on Southern Gas Association. I'm happy to sit down and have a conversation with anybody.

Jason Price: 

Fantastic. Again, we want to thank you for your insight and your wisdom in today's call. We hope that the conversation will kick off further discussions and comments at energycentral.com and we're sure to expect you to follow up with any questions or answers that may come from our listeners. So until then, we want to thank you for joining us on today's show.

Suzanne Ogle: 

Yeah, and thank you for providing this forum so people can learn more. It's a great opportunity. I think you guys are doing a great job.

Jason Price: 

Well, much appreciated. We also want to give a shout out of thanks to the podcast sponsors that made today's episode possible, thanks to West Monroe. West Monroe works with the nation's largest electric, gas, and water utilities in their telecommunication, grid modernization, and digital and workforce transformation. West Monroe brings a multidisciplinary team that blends customer experience, operational efficiency, regulatory, and IT and digital expertise to address modernizing aging infrastructure, advisory on transportation electrification, ADMS deployments, data and analytics, and cybersecurity. And once again, I'm your host Jason Price. Plug in and stay fully charged in the discussion by hopping into the community at energycentral.com. And we'll see you next time at the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast.

About Energy Central Podcasts

The ‘Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast’ features conversations with thought leaders in the utility sector. At least twice monthly, we connect with an Energy Central Power Industry Network community member to discuss compelling topics that impact professionals who work in the power industry. Some podcasts may be a continuation of thought-provoking posts or discussions started in the community or with an industry leader that is interested in sharing their expertise and doing a deeper dive into hot topics or issues relevant to the industry.

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The Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast is hosted by Jason Price, Community Ambassador of Energy Central. Jason is a Business Development Executive at West Monroe, working in the East Coast Energy and Utilities Group. Jason is joined in the podcast booth by the producer of the podcast, Matt Chester, who is also the Community Manager of Energy Central and energy analyst/independent consultant in energy policy, markets, and technology.  

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