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Renewable Demonstration

Ed Reid's picture
Vice President, Marketing (Retired) / Executive Director (Retired) / President (Retired), Columbia Gas Distribution Companies / American Gas Cooling Center / Fire to Ice, Inc.

Industry Participation: Natural Gas Industry Research, Development and Demonstration Initiative Chair, Cooling Committee (1996-1999)   American Gas Association Marketing Section...

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  • Mar 22, 2022
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I believe it is essential that at least one large scale demonstration of a completely freestanding renewable plus storage powered grid be conducted under carefully controlled conditions. This demonstration should begin as soon as possible to gather the information necessary to assure that a national renewable grid is reliable. Regrettably, such a demonstration would require installation of long duration storage, which is not currently available commercially.

However, the demonstration could begin by requiring that the renewable generation in the demonstration zone be isolated from eternal sources of backup power and required to deliver surplus electricity to external grids which would function as pseudo-storage. The electricity delivered to pseudo-storage could be returned to the renewable demonstration zone in quantities equal to the quantity of electricity “stored”. The management of the renewable demonstration would be required to specify the storage capacity they required to achieve renewable grid reliability and could deliver only that quantity of electricity to pseudo-storage and draw only that quantity from pseudo-storage.

The demonstration could permit the demonstration zone managers to “install” additional generating capacity and pseudo-storage as required to compensate for lessons learned during the demonstration. The reasons for addition of additional generation and storage, as well as for the selection of particular generator and storage types should be carefully documented.

The demonstration managers would be able to import electricity from external sources if required to avoid demonstration grid failure, but would then be required to install additional generation capacity or contract for more pseudo-storage to avoid a repeat of the imminent grid failure condition. The demonstration managers should not be permitted to deliver electricity outside the demonstration zone, other than to pseudo-storage.

The demonstration zone should not include hydro generation capacity, since it is not broadly available. Nuclear generation capacity in the demonstration zone should approximate the 20% share of generation nationally, if necessary by limiting electricity delivery from nuclear generators to the demonstration zone. The demonstration zone should be located near the coast, so that offshore wind generation could be included in the generation mix as it becomes available.

A demonstration of this type would rapidly identify essential design characteristics and illustrate design flaws in a way that current attempts at demonstration and deployment have failed to do. Actual electricity storage should replace pseudo-storage as it becomes available.

No special provisions for environmental impact statements or siting approvals should be permitted, so that the establishment and development of the demonstration zone mirrors the actual experiences expected during the national transition to a renewable plus storage grid. Again, this approach would quickly identify issues which would affect the national transition. Issue resolutions implemented to facilitate the timely rollout of the demonstration should be available for all future environmental and siting issues, not limited only to the demonstration.

It might be ideal to site the demonstration zone in the metropolitan Washington, DC area to assist agencies of the federal government and federal legislators to understand the various issues with a renewable plus storage grid in real time and work to resolve them in a timely fashion. 

Discussions
Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on Mar 22, 2022

"I believe it is essential that at least one large scale demonstration of a completely freestanding renewable plus storage powered grid be conducted under carefully controlled conditions."

Ed, it would indeed be essential for policy based in rational, intelligent decision-making. Without that pre-requisite however, your proposal will never happen - for the obvious reason it can't happen.

"Renewables plus storage" is a lie, one that has never happened anywhere, and never will. It's a comfortable fantasy engineered by natural gas interests and their cohorts in wind and solar development to exploit naive green sensibilities.

But wouldn't experts need to be convinced, too? Until recently, electrical engineers thought the idea of powering an electrical grid with batteries was a joke. When huge batteries were installed next to solar farms, there were doubts about whether the public would be stupid enough to believe the batteries were being charged by solar panels.

But those doubts have vanished. Developers and electrical engineers in their employ have discovered public ignorance truly knows no bounds.

Joe Deely's picture
Joe Deely on Mar 22, 2022

Why not just use SPP grid?

Or maybe ERCOT would be better as solar/storage is starting to explode there.

Ed Reid's picture
Ed Reid on Mar 22, 2022

Fine by me. Are they willing to volunteer?

Joe Deely's picture
Joe Deely on Mar 23, 2022

It looks to me like they already have...

Below is dashboard for ERCOT from today... https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards

By spring 2023 ERCOT will see wind hitting 28 GW and Solar hitting 15GW (at least). Throw in 5GW of nuclear and you have the start to your demo, right?

Ed Reid's picture
Ed Reid on Mar 23, 2022

Cumulative peak renewables now ~20k, so would be ~33k in Spring 2023 if load profile unchanged. Nuclear would increase renewable plus nuke peak to ~38k, still short of ~42k peak demand at ~8pm. Also well short of ~8 AM demand peak.

Looks like they would need significant storage. There is no period throughout the day in which storage could be recharged in the scenario above even with the additional generation, so even more additional generation would also be necessary.

Joe Deely's picture
Joe Deely on Mar 24, 2022

Cumulative peak renewables now ~20k

Not sure how you get that... here is generation from past week... there are multiple periods when peak wind alone gets near 25K.  If you see the 3/17 time I clicked on you see wind at over 21K and solar at over 4K - so again the peak total is over 25K.

Solar which currently peaks at at about 9GW is just getting started in Texas...here is the queue data for possible solar additions over the next 15 months.

It's possible that ERCOT grid could have renewable peaks at or above 40K by 2023 spring. By 2024 spring renewable peaks could be over 50K. Although, I'm not sure if their grid in current state can handle that much. May need some additional transmission and a lot more storage.

 

Looks like they would need significant storage. There is no period throughout the day in which storage could be recharged in the scenario above even with the additional generation, so even more additional generation would also be necessary.

Definitely gonna need more storage than they currently have(1GW) and more than the possible 4GW that might be on the grid by next spring.

 

Ed Reid's picture
Thank Ed for the Post!
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